Why are the San Diego Padres in a tailspin? There's one obvious answer, and it's not entirely the fault of the team's President of Baseball Operations.
COMPLETELY agree with the fault should be with Rothschild. I’ve been preaching this since Balsley was replaced by him. It has been documented “he devalues the fastball.” He has ruined a lot of arms and to date, the only one he improved of note is CC Sabathia. And even Yankee fans say Andy Pettitte had more to do with Sabathia turning it around than the Yankees pitching coach. LR is quoted saying “fastballs get hit, increase secondary pitches.” Now this might sound good on the surface, but what if your secondary pitches are below average Larry? Well, he insists that the only way you can improve it, is by throwing your slider, curve, change etc. Yes Lamet broke out last year, but at what cost did it take on his already surgically repaired elbow? Throwing PRIMARILY sliders, cut sliders mind you, will take serious toll on any elbow. EVERY Padre pitcher has regressed since Balsley left and maybe none more than Chris Paddack. What’s wrong with Paddack? He can’t command his fastball any longer. Everything works off locating your fastball. In the Marlins system he had Madduxlike command of his fastball. What’s different? The call to throw his secondary pitches more and more has allowed his command of his fastball to fade. It’s like a knuckles throwing 80% knuckleballs even though he has the ability to throw 90mph. Keep throwing knucklers and your velo will drop quickly. Bottom line, these pitchers aren’t doing the things that made them ACES in Tampa, ACES in Chicago or Texas, OD starter in Pitt because they have a new philosophy and that pitching coach is no Aristotle. This team is pressing because the pitching sucks and they are forced to come from behind all the time. Agree this is not Tinglers fault in the least bit. The lone “move” that I didn’t and never will support is replacing Balsley with Rothschild.
“Every Padres pitcher has regressed since Balsley left”…this isn’t remotely true. Lamet had one of the best seasons in team history last year. Davies also had his best season. The guys who most notably regressed last year were both 2 pitch pitchers.
This year, Musgrove has broken out. Snell has fallen apart.
Snell also is on record saying he is depressed about leaving TB and looks physically tired and mentally checked out most starts.
Lamet broke out by throwing 75% sliders. And what was the cost of his success? Worth his 2020 season and staring at another TJ most likely. Davies did not break out as a Padre. He was a mid rotation starter with the Brewers and that is all he was with the Padres. He was an innings eater for sure, but definitely did not break out. The list of injuries under LR’s time frame is long. The list is longer when you talk about guys he started 2020 with but are on other teams, now injured. Even longer when you look at the Yankee arms he has managed, most notably Severino. Snell has regressed, Musgrove started strong but has admitted he has been mechanically out of sorts and has lost the feel on his pitches. FOR TWO MONTHS? Sounds like a job for a pitching coach…
True, Lamet never would’ve gotten hurt under Balsley🙄
Davies had his best ERA/FIP/K9 by quite a bit.
Musgrove is having his best year across the board as well.
He’s a mixed bag, just like a lot of other pitching coaches. Maybe he isn’t the answer but he’s not nearly as big of a problem as people make it out to seem.
Seems to me Preller overpays pitchers that other teams are ditching for a reason. We get Snell and everyone looks at his best year and says “damn, he’s an ace!”…same with Clevinger. But when you look at the big picture their overall numbers aren’t great and teams are moving them for a reason.
I wish there was some way to understand what LR does / doesn't do that is different than other pitching coaches that would be, at the very least, a tangible hypothesis as to what it is that he's doing / not doing that creates an environment where starting pitchers are more prone to injuries. Any thoughts / ideas? I get it. The pitchers are his responsibility and when things don't go right, it makes sense to blame the guy that is responsible for them. I support that. Just wanting to know what it is specifically about his approach that is different? I tend to think that trends get assimilated / copied, etc., very quickly in baseball (and sports generally).
Please see my comment above as I meant to reply to you. There are a lot of anti Rothschild articles out there. Most notable was the experience Sonny Gray had with him.
Just read the Gray article. Interesting. Gray has a resurgence in 2019, a decent regression in 2020 (small sample size), and is a bit better in 2021 vs. his bad 2018 with LR and the Yankees. (Though his overall 2021 numbers are heavily impacted by a couple recent really bad outings, which may indicate the impact of the "foreign substance" crack down.)
So, LR's logic is: (1) Fastballs get hit and good off-speed / high movement pitches don't get hit as frequently or efficiently; (2) thus, to succeed, you need throw quality secondary pitches more frequently; (3) the only way your increase the frequency of throwing higher quality secondary pitches is by doing it more; (4) so work on your secondary pitches more (bullpens, in-game); and the hypothesis is that as a result of #4, you put more strain on your arm because most non-fastball pitches put more strain on the body, especially the elbow and, by working more on those pitches, pitchers tend to lose command of their primary pitch, their fastball. So then their fastballs get hit more (less command), lack of control of their secondary pitches leads to higher pitch counts (deeper counts, more walks), and extra strain on their arms, leading to more injuries.
If that's the case, I can see the logic.
Would be really interesting to know if there is any publicly available data that indicates that Padre pitchers have increased their secondary pitch usage, particularly those that are suspected of putting additional demands on elbows, shoulders, etc. to support the hypothesis.
COMPLETELY agree with the fault should be with Rothschild. I’ve been preaching this since Balsley was replaced by him. It has been documented “he devalues the fastball.” He has ruined a lot of arms and to date, the only one he improved of note is CC Sabathia. And even Yankee fans say Andy Pettitte had more to do with Sabathia turning it around than the Yankees pitching coach. LR is quoted saying “fastballs get hit, increase secondary pitches.” Now this might sound good on the surface, but what if your secondary pitches are below average Larry? Well, he insists that the only way you can improve it, is by throwing your slider, curve, change etc. Yes Lamet broke out last year, but at what cost did it take on his already surgically repaired elbow? Throwing PRIMARILY sliders, cut sliders mind you, will take serious toll on any elbow. EVERY Padre pitcher has regressed since Balsley left and maybe none more than Chris Paddack. What’s wrong with Paddack? He can’t command his fastball any longer. Everything works off locating your fastball. In the Marlins system he had Madduxlike command of his fastball. What’s different? The call to throw his secondary pitches more and more has allowed his command of his fastball to fade. It’s like a knuckles throwing 80% knuckleballs even though he has the ability to throw 90mph. Keep throwing knucklers and your velo will drop quickly. Bottom line, these pitchers aren’t doing the things that made them ACES in Tampa, ACES in Chicago or Texas, OD starter in Pitt because they have a new philosophy and that pitching coach is no Aristotle. This team is pressing because the pitching sucks and they are forced to come from behind all the time. Agree this is not Tinglers fault in the least bit. The lone “move” that I didn’t and never will support is replacing Balsley with Rothschild.
“Every Padres pitcher has regressed since Balsley left”…this isn’t remotely true. Lamet had one of the best seasons in team history last year. Davies also had his best season. The guys who most notably regressed last year were both 2 pitch pitchers.
This year, Musgrove has broken out. Snell has fallen apart.
Snell also is on record saying he is depressed about leaving TB and looks physically tired and mentally checked out most starts.
Yu is Yu.
Lamet broke out by throwing 75% sliders. And what was the cost of his success? Worth his 2020 season and staring at another TJ most likely. Davies did not break out as a Padre. He was a mid rotation starter with the Brewers and that is all he was with the Padres. He was an innings eater for sure, but definitely did not break out. The list of injuries under LR’s time frame is long. The list is longer when you talk about guys he started 2020 with but are on other teams, now injured. Even longer when you look at the Yankee arms he has managed, most notably Severino. Snell has regressed, Musgrove started strong but has admitted he has been mechanically out of sorts and has lost the feel on his pitches. FOR TWO MONTHS? Sounds like a job for a pitching coach…
True, Lamet never would’ve gotten hurt under Balsley🙄
Davies had his best ERA/FIP/K9 by quite a bit.
Musgrove is having his best year across the board as well.
He’s a mixed bag, just like a lot of other pitching coaches. Maybe he isn’t the answer but he’s not nearly as big of a problem as people make it out to seem.
Seems to me Preller overpays pitchers that other teams are ditching for a reason. We get Snell and everyone looks at his best year and says “damn, he’s an ace!”…same with Clevinger. But when you look at the big picture their overall numbers aren’t great and teams are moving them for a reason.
I wish there was some way to understand what LR does / doesn't do that is different than other pitching coaches that would be, at the very least, a tangible hypothesis as to what it is that he's doing / not doing that creates an environment where starting pitchers are more prone to injuries. Any thoughts / ideas? I get it. The pitchers are his responsibility and when things don't go right, it makes sense to blame the guy that is responsible for them. I support that. Just wanting to know what it is specifically about his approach that is different? I tend to think that trends get assimilated / copied, etc., very quickly in baseball (and sports generally).
Please see my comment above as I meant to reply to you. There are a lot of anti Rothschild articles out there. Most notable was the experience Sonny Gray had with him.
Just read the Gray article. Interesting. Gray has a resurgence in 2019, a decent regression in 2020 (small sample size), and is a bit better in 2021 vs. his bad 2018 with LR and the Yankees. (Though his overall 2021 numbers are heavily impacted by a couple recent really bad outings, which may indicate the impact of the "foreign substance" crack down.)
So, LR's logic is: (1) Fastballs get hit and good off-speed / high movement pitches don't get hit as frequently or efficiently; (2) thus, to succeed, you need throw quality secondary pitches more frequently; (3) the only way your increase the frequency of throwing higher quality secondary pitches is by doing it more; (4) so work on your secondary pitches more (bullpens, in-game); and the hypothesis is that as a result of #4, you put more strain on your arm because most non-fastball pitches put more strain on the body, especially the elbow and, by working more on those pitches, pitchers tend to lose command of their primary pitch, their fastball. So then their fastballs get hit more (less command), lack of control of their secondary pitches leads to higher pitch counts (deeper counts, more walks), and extra strain on their arms, leading to more injuries.
If that's the case, I can see the logic.
Would be really interesting to know if there is any publicly available data that indicates that Padre pitchers have increased their secondary pitch usage, particularly those that are suspected of putting additional demands on elbows, shoulders, etc. to support the hypothesis.